Mrs Mummypenny Talks Podcast Ep 4 What Should I do with My Career? With Andrew Winton


In this episode, Lynn Beattie interviews Andrew Winton, her former boss, about career development and team building. Andrew shares his diverse career history, from selling courier services to managing online sales teams. He emphasizes the importance of building trust and creating environments where people can be themselves. They also discuss the challenges faced by the print media industry and the value of high-quality journalism. In this conversation, Andrew and Lynn discuss various topics related to work, personal growth, and networking. They touch on the importance of libraries, Andrew’s career journey, and the value of building a strong network. They also recommend tools such as the StrengthsFinder and Love Languages assessments to better understand oneself and others. The conversation concludes with a discussion on the benefits of travel and the potential for future podcasts on different life stages.


career development, team building, trust, print media, journalism, libraries, career journey, networking, personal growth, StrengthsFinder, Love Languages, travel


  • Building trust and creating an environment where people can be themselves is crucial for team success.
  • High-quality journalism is important and should be supported, even if it comes at a cost.
  • The print media industry is facing challenges due to the rise of digital platforms, but there is still value in print publications.
  • Libraries are a great resource for accessing free high-quality content, including magazines and newspapers. Libraries offer valuable resources and services that are often underutilized.
  • Building a strong network and connecting with others is essential for personal and professional growth.
  • Tools like StrengthsFinder and Love Languages can help individuals understand themselves and improve their relationships.
  • Traveling and experiencing different cultures can broaden one’s perspective and provide valuable life lessons.


  • The Value of High-Quality Journalism
  • The Challenges of the Print Media Industry The Transformative Power of Travel
  • Unlocking the Hidden Gems of Libraries

Sound Bites

  • “Building a team that trusts each other”
  • “Strong opinions loosely held”
  • “People expect everything for free”
  • “It’s amazing. I mean, I joined the library for this Zinio thing.”
  • “That is amazing. And you know, there’s PCs and they’ve got magazines and you have this online thing.”
  • “When I was there, we started moving away from just kind of doing a bit of digital stuff, to doing quite a lot of digital advertising there.”


00:00Introduction and Background

03:09Building Trust and Creating Successful Teams

09:30The Challenges of the Print Media Industry

23:49Accessing Free High-Quality Content through Libraries

24:16The Hidden Gems of Libraries

26:23Career Transitions and Digital Advertising

29:18Environmental Concerns with Amazon

30:13Finding Joy in Life

34:48Understanding Yourself with StrengthsFinder

36:46Networking and Building Relationships

39:27The Transformative Power of Travel

Lynn Beattie (00:01.774)
Hi everybody and welcome back to the latest episode of Mrs. Mummy Penny Talks. We’re onto episode four now and I have another guest. There’s always a guest joining me on the podcast. And this time my guest is not a famous Instagram person. Well, maybe a tiny bit famous. So Andrew Winton was the best boss I’ve ever had in my corporate career.

Andrew (00:24.051)

Lynn Beattie (00:31.726)
who’s very skilled at coaching and sort career development. So I thought it’d be really good to get him on to talk about the big question of what do I do with my career? So thank you, Andrew.

Andrew (00:45.299)
Thank you for having me, Lynn. It’s good to be here.

Lynn Beattie (00:49.358)
These things are really weird calling you Andrew because we normally refer to you as winners, but…

Andrew (00:53.203)
Yeah, I don’t know. I can’t even think where that name came from. I’m not sure where it… I think it’s just some kind of… Yeah, probably Mr. Isaac. Thank you for the introduction. It’s really good to be here. I’ve not done many podcasts before, so I brought my wolf along with me for protection, as you can see.

Lynn Beattie (01:01.134)
Probably Kevin, one of our other team members.

Lynn Beattie (01:14.366)
You’ll be fine, you’ll be fine. I’ve done probably about 200 podcasts, so I’m quite the expert now. So can we start by you giving us a little bit of a rundown of like your sort of potted career history and why you’re so interested in like developing your team and you know, personal development.

Andrew (01:21.619)
You’re a proper pro.

Andrew (01:31.123)

Andrew (01:37.459)
Yeah, definitely, of course. I think I’ve worked in so many different industries in my career. I started out on the phone for a while selling…

appointments at TNT Express, trying to get people to sell, buy more courier services. And then I jumped into selling crisp stands and display units for Walkers Crisp as part of PepsiCo for a couple of years, driving around Worcester, going to every corner shop and Woolworths that existed then, you can imagine. And then I moved into the mobile phone world because back then,

Lynn Beattie (01:54.798)
That’s fun.

Andrew (02:16.659)
everything was all about kind of groceries. So as during Tesco’s with the kind of big dominant growing players, no one was really interested in kind of cash and carries and kind of the corner shops anymore. So I went to what was then a small mobile phone company called One to One that did great advertising. It was a London based little thing. And I sold in phone cards and mobile phones to all of the four core.

Lynn Beattie (02:35.918)

Andrew (02:44.403)
businesses in the UK, so BP Shell, all those guys, and Sainsbury’s and mobile phones into Sainsbury’s as well. And then I kind of just spent about 10 years in the mobile phone world, doing everything from all of the retail outlets you can possibly think of in the UK that exist now or did back then, from Woolworth’s Comet, a catalog companies, Little Woods.

Argos, Carphone Warehouse, The Ling, Phones for You, you know, you name it, I probably dealt with them at some point. And then I moved to manage the tele -sales team. And then when I was doing the tele -sales team…

There was a lot of people in those business units that we were kind of dealing with from a tele -sales point of view. And I think there was a team in South Wales and there was a team in Newcastle and there was a team in Glasgow. And I think it was probably at that point where I’d gone from just managing smallish teams of maybe sort of five or 10 people to kind of having this kind of management of a much larger group in very different parts of the UK.

Lynn Beattie (03:37.838)

Andrew (03:53.989)
very different needs and skill sets and a very different type of individual than the people I’d managed before. And it was I think then I really got interested in understanding the different dynamics of people and how they kind of work as a unit, not just in one location but in multiple locations. And we did training for them and we focused on how do we help them convert more of the…

Lynn Beattie (04:00.718)

Andrew (04:21.107)
of the cause coming through, how do we kind of give them better enablement to have better conversations with customers and kind of skill them to be more professional and to help them develop their own careers through the business. So that was, did that for a little while. And then there was this thing called the internet.

Lynn Beattie (04:44.206)

Andrew (04:44.979)
was bubbling around a little bit and we were getting calls from the T -Mobile website as it was then to telly sales. So it was kind of a channel for the telly sales teams to be selling through. So.

Lynn Beattie (04:57.966)

Andrew (04:59.06)
They said, well Andrew, why don’t you just take that bit and see if you can get more phone calls to the tele sales team and help you sell more phones. I was like, okay, cool. So we did that and we started building a team around the website and developing, getting more calls to the call center, which was quite successful. And then we started dabbling in, or maybe we could sell things on this online place.

Lynn Beattie (05:23.758)
So we didn’t even have… What year was this?

Andrew (05:26.643)
Now there’s probably, probably like early 2000s or something, I guess. I couldn’t even tell you maybe exactly when. I mean, there was probably a bit of a shock, but it was, but it was primarily given, you know, it’s me because it was driving, you know, calls rather than selling anything. The shock was pretty basic probably back then. So then I sort of, we brought a few people in and we started dabbling around with the shop, you know, creating, you know, more options, making the online experience, you know, much more.

Lynn Beattie (05:32.622)

Lynn Beattie (05:42.894)
Yeah, yeah.

Andrew (05:53.683)
slick and simple to buy. And over time that phone number got smaller and smaller and smaller and less and less calls came through as we spent more and more time developing the online experience and the shop and putting more and more effort into that.

Lynn Beattie (06:02.766)
Hmm… Yeah.

Andrew (06:13.203)
So then there was at one kind of point where we kind of completely removed the call center number from the website and it kind of flew on its own. And then really I just spent all my time, you know, from there on in a team of already driving, you know, the online business. So, you know, we were the first people. That’s where you came along. Yeah, that’s where I met, you know, it was a really great team there. And I think, you know, we were a really passionate group.

Lynn Beattie (06:31.438)
And that’s sort of where I came along, wasn’t it? Eventually.


Andrew (06:41.363)
of individuals who kind of came together with the same sort of view about, you know, how do we just make this online team, you know, really, really successful. It felt like a sort of renegade sort of group. It was a whole bunch of different sort of misfits that we all kind of brought together with different skills and experiences. I think that’s why it worked so well. Cause you know, teams also work really well when you have, you know, a whole bunch of different points of view and different things kind of in the melting pot.

Lynn Beattie (07:06.286)
Yeah, but I think also you need to take a lot of credit for how it worked really well because, so I first met you because I was your business partner, so I was your finance person that basically said yes or no to you wanting to spend money. And…

Andrew (07:17.811)
Right, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Lynn Beattie (07:23.63)
I always remember James coming to me one day with a list of like 10 ideas of these are the 10 things I want to do with pay as you go mobile phones and I literally went through them all I’m like no too expensive not enough return I was just going through ROI on everything and there was like one gem within it but I mean that’s all it takes isn’t it like one gem of an idea I mean they’re all good ideas but they weren’t necessarily commercially because me with my accounting background

Andrew (07:25.907)



Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yes, yes, yes. Mm, of course. Yeah, yes, absolutely. Yeah. No, no, no, exactly. Yeah, yeah, of course.

Lynn Beattie (07:52.494)
We’d always analyse things in that kind of way. But, and then I think I’d been doing that job not for very long and we had a coffee because I think we just got on really well and you were like, do you want to come work in my team? Our interview was literally, do you remember, we were sat outside Paddington office on the benches outside the reception, like 10 minutes and you’re like, so do you want to work for me? And I’m like, yeah, all right. That was it.

Andrew (07:55.315)

Mm -hmm. Mm. Mm -hmm.


Andrew (08:09.747)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

It was great. I think you make those kind of judgments, they don’t you, I think. You don’t need, you know, if you’ve got to interview somebody for so long, then I think you know you…

you’re looking at the wrong things. You know, that’s, you know, when I went to work at Amazon and they spent so much time trying to, you know, get people into the business, like the hiring process there is, you know, just sort of insanely complicated, long -winded, you know, way too many people involved in it. There is no room for kind of, kind of just gut instinct. And, you know, that’s a really important aspect of business. And I think, you know, companies like Amazon,

Lynn Beattie (08:30.094)

Lynn Beattie (08:41.774)
my gosh, yeah.

Lynn Beattie (08:49.07)

Andrew (08:56.563)
with the way they put processes in place, you just lose all of that ability as a kind of human being with experience to make the judgments about the kind of team you want to build around you. And trust is such an important part of that. And you can only really get trust by having an honest conversation with people. You can’t really generate a relationship on trust by having a 45 minute conversation about, give me a time when you did X, Y, and Z, and what was your role in that, and what data points did you use to…

Lynn Beattie (09:10.798)

Lynn Beattie (09:14.702)

Lynn Beattie (09:23.238)
Tell me your strengths and development needs.

Andrew (09:26.469)
I mean, there’s no, there’s nothing there, you know, and I think, you know, building a team that trusts each other. And that’s why I spent so much time, you know, with you all, you know, building relationships, understanding what motivates people, all that kind of stuff. Yeah, yeah. Because, you know, they’re the moments when, you know, you, you create.

Lynn Beattie (09:30.734)

Lynn Beattie (09:40.302)
going on amazing team days to Oxford and Newcastle.

Andrew (09:50.515)
an environment of trust. And then when you create that environment of trust between people, they can be open, they can be honest, and they can do it in a way that moves business conversations forward much more easily and effectively when people know each other and are comfortable to say, hey, that’s just, you know, if you can swear in a group, then you know, you kind of got to put where the group is so open that you can go, you can just say, call that as BS. Like that’s just a really bad idea. And you can kind of say it without any fear of the person kind of getting upset or angry.

Lynn Beattie (10:01.774)

Andrew (10:19.443)
then you know you’ve got a team where you can really make progress.

Lynn Beattie (10:25.39)
And we always, we always said, cause, so I worked for you, we all worked together 15 years ago. So this is a long time ago and we are all still incredibly close and we all still meet up, maybe every like six months for drinks and we get far too drunk. and we talk a lot. Like, I think you, you, you built this magical team and like, we’re still all really close. Then it’s like, when does that happen?

Andrew (10:31.323)
Yeah, see you.

Andrew (10:38.259)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Andrew (10:49.491)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it was a great one. I don’t know. And I think the nice thing is, you’re not the only, you’re maybe the most close -knit group that I’ve kind of built. And I think location helps. You’re all reasonably geographically closely aligned. But the nice thing is that there are other teams in other places I’ve worked that have also kind of kept similar closeness for a while.

Lynn Beattie (11:06.766)

Andrew (11:16.307)
And that’s nice because I think they all sort of recognise the value of those relationships they build. And I think, so I just think I don’t do anything, you know, unique or clever. I just think I just try and create environments where, you know, you let people be themselves, you create that kind of trust, you…

I, as a manager, try and understand the things that make individuals kind of tick. You know, we always focused on strengths, didn’t we? That was always my kind of thing. You know, as we did the Trends Finder exercise and worked out what really motivates people to do their best work. Because if they’re doing their best work, then it’s not even like work. You know, there’s no point trying to get somebody who’s really, really creative to spend days and days doing Excel spreadsheets or data analysis. It’s just never going to be their thing. So, you know, you put the right people in the, in the.

Lynn Beattie (11:48.846)

Lynn Beattie (12:01.358)

Andrew (12:02.661)
the right holes. You know, we always talked about, you know, the football team, you know, you’ve got where you’ve got the gaps, you find the best players to fill those gaps. There’s no point saying, hey, you were a great goalie. Now let’s see if you can be a great striker. It’s not you’re just a great goalie. Let’s just train you to be even better. We’ll go and find a brilliant striker and you just find the right people for those, those roles and you keep on pushing them to perform even better. And

Lynn Beattie (12:18.83)

Andrew (12:26.835)
and occasionally you’ve got to make tough decisions about, you know, I made the wrong call or this person in the wrong position, so you move them around or sometimes they’re in the wrong team and you just got to, you know, have that honest chat with them. And when that happens, generally they agree. I mean, I’ve been very rarely in a place where, you know, I’ve had a conversation with somebody and said, look, I think you’re maybe in the wrong role in the wrong team, but they haven’t gone, you know, yeah, you’re absolutely right. You know, I think I need to think about what I do here. So, anyway, so where were we? So,

T -Mobile and then we jumped into EE. Well, not immediately, I mean, I left after a while. So if you remember, we’d done such a brilliant job on the T -Mobile website and it was performing so well in comparison to, you know, both other channels within T -Mobile, but unbeknownst to us also compared to the Orange web shop, which we assumed…

Lynn Beattie (12:57.646)

Yeah. And then you left.

Andrew (13:24.115)
would be much bigger, much more impressive, much more optimized and a much more effective selling tool. So when we had that kind of moment, I’m not sure who was in the room, but there was me and the team from T -Mobile going into a hotel room with a big table. We were on one side of the orange equivalents, one the other. We were no longer competitors. We were now kind of in this new merged business. And we sort of shared data for the first time. And actually, we came out.

feeling really happy that actually the team of mobile website performance was strong and probably if anything was more surprising compared to the Orange guys who maybe thought they would have come out looking even more effective. So we then kind of, if you remember, we took quite a lot of time and we tried to then help the Orange team really get their website on track. And then we were…

Lynn Beattie (13:54.574)

Lynn Beattie (14:14.766)

Andrew (14:19.315)
So that, so for a while we were kind of the T -Mobile website, which we were kind of continually optimizing. There was the Orange website, which we were kind of doing the kind of the improvement plan. And then we were kind of quietly building the EE website in the shadows in stealth mode. So for a while we were kind of running, you know, three, three websites, which was kind of mad. And then, and then, yeah, I left, I left after a while.

Lynn Beattie (14:28.814)


Lynn Beattie (14:37.582)

Andrew (14:46.035)
Because things have changed, the business has gone through huge restructuring and it was the right moment to go really.

Lynn Beattie (14:50.702)
Yes, we used to restructure sort of every year, every two years, so you were always at risk of losing your job.

Andrew (14:59.507)
It was a lot, there was a lot of that. And I think there was a lot of that. And I remember just, you know, speaking to my boss at the time saying, this is the time where I think I just give you six months notice and let’s, you know, let’s just call it, call it now. And, you know, I’d been there for quite a long time and part of me thought, well, I’ve just done, you know, I’ve been through all the sales channels. I’ve done all the retail, I’ve done tally sales, I’ve done online sales, you know, and marketing. There’s not really anywhere else for me to go here anyway.

Lynn Beattie (15:10.926)

Lynn Beattie (15:19.694)

Lynn Beattie (15:26.062)

Andrew (15:29.011)
And so, yeah, so I left there and went to News UK and built this. That’s right. Yeah, there’s times, there’s only times. And that was very interesting because obviously it’s a very different, you know, business from, from mobile, but it was a subscription business. So I just took all of my kind of subscription learnings and brought that into the business. So built again, a small but kind of effective team of people.

Lynn Beattie (15:34.03)
which is the times.

Andrew (15:54.707)
to grow that subscription business. And, and I enjoyed it because it was really interesting. Like I really got into the whole kind of, you know, print media publishing world. Then it was really fascinating, like going up and really interesting. And, and, you know, music, Hey, then was in a pretty difficult time because I joined just after the news, the world had been shut down. So I joined in the summer of, what was that? Probably 20, 2012 or something like that. Maybe.

Lynn Beattie (16:03.758)

It’s such a fascinating world, isn’t it?

Lynn Beattie (16:16.942)

Andrew (16:21.971)
and the News of the World had just closed down maybe I think late the year before. They just put the times behind a paywall and said, in root remote, I could say, right, the Times is gonna go behind a paywall digitally and you have to build a subscription business around it. So they kind of did that paywall in like a week, but they had no subscription team to manage the growth of that. So you had that kind of going on.

Lynn Beattie (16:39.982)

Andrew (16:45.907)
The news of the world had closed down and even when I was there for probably the first 12 months or maybe not quite 12 months, there was quite often emails from the CEO saying, I’m really sorry that, you know, journalist X has been, you know, been arrested at dawn at their house, you know, please don’t speak to anybody about this, you know, we’ll obviously, you know, blah, blah, blah. And…

Before I joined, apparently for a long time there was protests outside the office and there was security and all these employees were kind of quite scarred by that. So I was kind of part of the new guard, I guess, coming in after that sort of finished. And…

It was really interesting because we built another team at News UK and we kind of built this description business up. And I was only meant to be there for six months and then I was there for two years. And we kind of developed it to be a really compelling part of their proposition. You know, we grew it to a level.

where we were getting more revenue from subscriptions than we were from any other part of the kind of ecosystem for the times and the Sunday times. And of course I bought some of my mobile phone experience. So we were the first people globally to do a, get a digital subscription and a free Google tablet for the first Christmas. Perfect on a mobile phone, kind of like bundle. And then the next Christmas we did the same, we did with an iPad mini.

Lynn Beattie (17:55.796)
I remember you doing that. Yeah.

Andrew (18:03.443)
So it was basically get a complimentary iPad mini when you subscribe to a year’s worth of digital access. And so we bundled the things together in very much kind of mobile phone net style. And we still like, I think we did about 10 ,000 of each, I think each Christmas. But it was innovative and people loved it. And it was quite a nice thing for us to be the first, you know, papered subscription to go down that kind of path that was followed by lots of other companies and stuff.

Lynn Beattie (18:10.318)
Bet that went so well, I bet it flew.

Lynn Beattie (18:21.294)

Lynn Beattie (18:29.386)
Can I just ask, because this is really pertinent to what I do now, because I write for a lot of newspapers and magazines. That whole world is going through a significant shift. So journalists, for example, say 10 years ago, you might have been paid…

Andrew (18:34.003)
Hmm. Hmm.

Andrew (18:44.211)

Lynn Beattie (18:48.014)
I don’t know, 300, 500 quid to write an article for the Times. Now, if I was to write an article for the Times now, I’d probably get paid less as a, you know, a freelancer then versus a freelancer now. So the circulation of newspapers and magazines has really gone down. But yet if they’ve nailed the digital side, because there are certain publications whose, you know, online presence is amazing. But I never read the Times because of the paywall and

Andrew (18:51.027)

Andrew (18:55.411)
Mm -hmm.

Andrew (18:59.251)
Yeah, yeah.

Andrew (19:04.435)
Mm hmm.

Andrew (19:11.795)
Mm -hmm.

Andrew (19:17.395)

Lynn Beattie (19:17.968)
it’s just not something I’d subscribe to and yeah.

Andrew (19:20.915)
No, no, sure, sure. I think it’s interesting. Sorry, Karen, you go. Yeah.

Lynn Beattie (19:28.206)
But what do you think is going to happen to the print world? Because it’s still, in a PR terms, a lot of companies, particularly banks and insurance, they want tier A coverage for their brands. They want to be in The Guardian and the FTP and the Telegraph. They don’t want to be on Mrs. Mommy Penny’s website. But yet, I can get greater reach than the newspapers sometimes.

Andrew (19:36.187)

Andrew (19:43.507)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I’m asking… Yeah, I mean, I think…

Yes, I think it’s a really interesting discussion point to be honest. I think journalism, whether it’s print or digital, you get the kind of the platform on which it kind of is delivered. I think high quality, thoughtful, smart journalism is something that this country has got a great history in and we should continue to support it. And I think part of the problem…

Lynn Beattie (20:13.294)

Andrew (20:16.371)
is that people expect everything for free and I think, you know, what you get for free is always going to have a trade -off in some way, whereas if you’re prepared to pay for something that’s high quality, whether it’s the Times or the Telegraph or any other kind of paid -for content when it comes to journalistic input, output, I think that’s what you’re going to get. I think the problem is that we’re bombarded with so much free content that kind of, who’s ensuring the bar of quality or

integrity or authenticity or even you know there is no bar.

Lynn Beattie (20:46.766)

There is no bar. The bar is really low. Yeah.

Andrew (20:52.787)
Exactly. Whereas I think when you, when you, and I’m not saying you should, but if you paid for something like, you know, a well known publication, such as the Times or the Telegraph, you know, you know that they, they may have a political stance, maybe they won’t, but they hold themselves to certain standards of journalistic code that, that you can hold them to and you know, you can expect particular, you know, quality and ethical, you know, levels to be kind of, you know, to be adhered to.

Lynn Beattie (21:11.886)

Andrew (21:22.741)
to. And I don’t think it’s the same for lots of other free platforms. And it does worry me that I think we’re creating a generation of people who don’t have the ability potentially to sort of navigate a world of news and kind of comment and analysis in a way that will enable them to think.

Lynn Beattie (21:23.854)

Andrew (21:45.363)
clearly and cohesively about things, you know, in a way that is rounded. You know, there’s way too many extreme points of view and, you know, we know that social media platforms are great at kind of feeding the beast that you want to see, but not giving you a wider view. Like, you know, you should be able to go, this is what I think over here, but you know what? I’m going to explore, you know, lots of other points of view just to make sure.

Lynn Beattie (21:54.03)

Lynn Beattie (21:58.03)

Andrew (22:10.579)
that my opinion holds up to robust scrutiny. Because often, if you’re an intelligent person, you can understand different points of view, whether you agree with them or not. And sometimes you might go, actually, that’s an interesting point. I hadn’t thought about that. Or I didn’t know that was the case. And therefore, actually, maybe I’ve moved my opinion a little bit from this point to another point. And I call it.

Lynn Beattie (22:24.334)

Lynn Beattie (22:31.342)

Andrew (22:33.651)
You know, I think we had an away day years ago with some company and one of the kind of principles we agreed on was, you know, strong opinions loosely held. And I think that’s such a brilliant kind of way of putting it. Like I can have strong opinions, but.

Lynn Beattie (22:41.71)

Andrew (22:44.467)
you should hold them loosely enough that if somebody can kind of persuade you with strong, credible arguments that maybe you’re not quite right or you should move your opinion, then you’re prepared to relax that strongly held opinion to move it. And I think that’s a really nice way of thinking about it. And I think that’s why I would encourage anybody to go and get a subscription to a good, high quality digital print.

Lynn Beattie (22:52.59)
reliable sources. Yeah.

Lynn Beattie (23:02.83)

Andrew (23:11.091)
newspaper and read it or go to the library or whatever.

Lynn Beattie (23:12.526)
Yes, I would. Yeah, no, that’s that’s a really good shout. Actually, you can get all of that stuff from the library. Libraries are incredible.

Andrew (23:20.723)
The libraries are amazing. I mean, I literally just incredible. I mean, it’s so much stuff for free. You can even, I was, I had a call with a company called Zinio the other day, which is basically a platform that enables you to upload magazines or other printed content. And they work with almost all the libraries. So almost everything, you know, magazines, newspapers, probably your local libraries is connected to Zinio and you can get a free access on your tablet or your phone.

Lynn Beattie (23:45.39)

Andrew (23:49.619)
and you can probably access a lot of really high quality content that you’d normally pay for entirely free by getting a free library card. It’s amazing.

Lynn Beattie (23:54.702)

Yes, so last week I was in London for a day and I went to the British Library which is free to join as a reader.

Andrew (24:06.579)

Lynn Beattie (24:09.614)
You can get into any of the members rooms. You can access the best supply of books you’ve ever seen in your life. I mean, I was just in the business and IP center, which is, it’s almost like, my gosh, there’s so much incredible like material here and it’s free. Like,

Andrew (24:09.971)
Thank you.

Andrew (24:16.379)

Andrew (24:21.043)

Andrew (24:27.955)
It’s amazing. I mean, I joined the library for this Zinio thing. I took it to my local library in my little town to pick up my library card. And I haven’t really been in there for a long time, to be honest. And they’re always kind of battling being closed down.

But I went in there and got my card and spoke to the lovely lady who was the librarian and just talking to her. And she was explaining what you could get and you have access to all the libraries in Oxfordshire and whatever. And she said, you can take 20 books out in one go. I said, 20 books? She said, yeah. I said, that’s insane. And you can pick them up here and you can drop them off at a library like in Oxford, if you’re in the town, or you can pick them up in Oxford and drop them up here. Honestly, 20 books. It’s like.

Lynn Beattie (25:04.046)
That’s amazing!

Andrew (25:08.819)
That is amazing. And you know, there’s PCs and they’ve got magazines and you have this online thing. I mean, you know, we’re very lucky in this country to have all this stuff. And I wish people, you know, kind of knew about it more, but we all just kind of do scroll on, you know, Facebook or, you know, whatever news apps we use. But I think, you know, if we could all just, I guess we’re all very busy. So it’s just something that’s, you know, we all sort of forget about these amazing things, but you know, the British library, I mean, what an amazing free institution.

Lynn Beattie (25:19.662)

Lynn Beattie (25:36.238)
I just love it. I love the building. I love the people that are there are always just so friendly and even, you know, like the people that sat next to you researching, whatever. It’s just a really, it’s a great place to go and work. And there’s no coffee, because normally I would sit in a coffee shop, then you end up buying like really expensive London coffee. So there’s nothing you can’t, I mean, there is a shop there, I encourage you to go to the British Library shop, because that’s also really impressive. But,

Andrew (25:39.827)


Andrew (25:47.603)
Yeah, I think.

Andrew (25:54.227)
Yeah, yeah. Of course. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, amazing. Amazing. So, yeah, so I was in the Times and I enjoyed that a lot. It was very interesting. And I, and then I was there for two years. It was meant to be like a rolling six month contract, but because we were just keeping busy with that was there, that was kind of rolled four times. And then…

Lynn Beattie (26:06.222)
Yeah, I’m saying we’ve completely digressed.

Andrew (26:23.667)
When I was there, we started moving away from just kind of doing a bit of digital stuff, to doing quite a lot of digital advertising there. And I thought, well, this is kind of really where everything is moving towards now. So this was kind of 2015, 2016, or whatever, I can’t remember exactly, or maybe 2014. And everything was kind of beginning to remove kind of digital display and search, and all these things were really kind of becoming bigger and bigger.

And so I, I was lucky enough to get the job at Sky managing all their digital marketing. So, you know, it was really able to kind of, yeah, I went to Sky. Yeah, believe in better. So I went to Sky. I mean, I really enjoyed my time at Sky. It was great. You know, I was working, you know, with a really young kind of team who were really kind of smart and clued up and, you know, interested and yeah, it was great. And it was very kind of quite aggressive commercial. I mean, probably no, not that different from.

Lynn Beattie (26:55.534)
I forgot you act for Sky, of course, because I came over to meet you.

Lynn Beattie (27:09.422)
Yeah, sky are really lovely because I go on news.

Andrew (27:20.147)
from anywhere I’ve been before, but it was good that they were all very, we had daily calls at eight o ‘clock every morning to go through the performance of the shot from the day before. It was all very, very, very focused every day. Daily call, we had all the data sent to kind of an Indian call center overnight so that all the reports were ready for an eight o ‘clock meeting. And we went through a dashboard on a TV screen as a huggle every day, Monday through Friday.

Lynn Beattie (27:22.126)

Lynn Beattie (27:30.894)
Daily? Not anyhow.

Andrew (27:46.995)
without fail unless there had been some kind of real crazy reason. And no one dialed in, it wasn’t like, teams, this was like, you’re in the office, that’s it. You’re in it, A, we do that, go and grab some breakfast afterwards and then crack on. Depending on if the day had been, whatever the day before, data had shown us we needed to sort out. So I enjoyed Sky a lot. The one thing I didn’t like about Sky was my commute to Sky was really horrible. And…

Lynn Beattie (27:57.038)

Lynn Beattie (28:15.566)
So this Sky Head office is on the M40, isn’t it? Austerly, yeah.

Andrew (28:18.555)
Yeah, in Osterley it’s just kind of off the end. I mean, it’s lovely. It’s a great, I mean, now it’s a beautiful campus. I mean, when I was there, they were sort of beginning to build it, but now it’s a beautiful, amazing place to work. But just location -wise for me personally, driving there was just, you know, so I did it for two years, but really that was kind of, unfortunately I couldn’t really.

Lynn Beattie (28:36.27)

Lynn Beattie (28:40.174)
Yeah, you’re just being constantly stuck in traffic jams.

Andrew (28:42.419)
Yeah, and again, this was days when you were in, you know, kind of four or five days a week. I think I was only not in on a Wednesday when it was my day in London to go and see all the agencies and stuff. For the rest of the time, you know, you were in the office. It was this is before the working from home was even considered a thing. So then I went to Amazon Prime Video. Yeah, so I did a couple of years at Prime Video. We kind of, yeah, near enough, maybe just slightly under, hunkered down, kind of go along with it.

Lynn Beattie (28:53.038)

Lynn Beattie (29:01.23)
that went really well didn’t it? Did you do – you stuck it out for two years? Done.

Andrew (29:12.115)
took the battles, took the bruises. But again, you know, again, just focused on the team, like, you know, just try to give people, you know, a vision of kind of almost beyond Amazon, like, you know, this isn’t, this isn’t a normal environment. You know, this is, let’s try and, you know, break through the constraints of how Amazon do things and try and find, you know, glimmers of glimmers of light in the Amazon kind of gloom.

Lynn Beattie (29:18.286)

Lynn Beattie (29:29.87)

Lynn Beattie (29:37.166)
But that’s, can I touch on that word glimmer? Because I actually think that’s a very relevant thing to life.

Andrew (29:44.051)
Mm. Mm.

Lynn Beattie (29:45.358)
because let’s say you’re having a really **** day, really **** week, really **** month, it’s off worth sitting back and just thinking, right, what are the glimmers that I’ve seen today that have actually given me a spot of happiness? So it might, the sun might have come out for five minutes. You might have had something really nice for lunch. You might have had a hug from a friend and focusing on those little glimmers just helps you get through it.

Andrew (29:48.659)
Hmm. Yeah.

Andrew (30:01.971)
Yeah, of course. Yeah.

Andrew (30:09.043)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Andrew (30:13.907)
I think it’s really important. I think you’ve got to find joy in all the things. And the thing I really liked about Amazon was actually the location, whilst it wasn’t a great commute. Again, it was in the city of London, but I really liked where I was. It was really interesting. We were right next to Leadenhall Market, which was a really interesting, kind of interesting old building. And then you were kind of this mixed around with all the new buildings. They were building like the Gherkin and the Lloyds.

Lynn Beattie (30:27.214)

Lynn Beattie (30:31.47)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yes sir.

Andrew (30:41.971)
I knew a few people around there, so I took me into Lloyd’s building and showed me around the old bit and the new bit. So there was bits that were really interesting. And I’ve got nothing against Amazon. For some people, it’s a brilliant, brilliant place to work. And it suits their kind of how they like to do things perfectly.

Lynn Beattie (30:46.798)
Yeah, good for lunches.

Lynn Beattie (30:59.918)
I have quite a lot of issues with Amazon, mainly because of the environmental side of them, because I went on BBC News once with an MP to talk about sort of financial environmental type stuff.

Andrew (31:03.155)

Andrew (31:09.491)
Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Lynn Beattie (31:14.19)
She lost her place in the election in 2019, but she was Labour, she was incredible. And she was like, I just need to tell you a story about Amazon in France, where they had an overstock of TVs and they just dug a massive hole in France and just threw all the TVs in the hole and then covered it over. So number one, that’s awful for the environment. Number two, why didn’t you give it to people for free that need a TV? Like it’s so, it’s just, it’s so,

Andrew (31:20.339)

Right. Yeah.

Mm -hmm.

Andrew (31:38.419)
Yeah, yeah, yeah for sure.

Lynn Beattie (31:44.144)
like the rules are the rules and we have to stick to the rules no matter what the consequence is.

Andrew (31:46.899)

Yeah, that’s kind of Amazon, I think. Yeah, I mean, I don’t know. I was never in the TV. I was never in the kind of the hard lines or whatever they would call that kind of part of the business. But, you know, in top prime video, and it should have been, you know, a kind of the sad thing, I think, should for me, the saddest thing was really, it should have been, it should have felt like the coolest place to work in the world. Like, you know, doing, you know, prime video was just kind of getting going. They just kind of really were just beginning to sort of completely close down.

Lynn Beattie (31:52.11)
That makes me angry.

Lynn Beattie (32:00.014)

Lynn Beattie (32:09.486)

Andrew (32:18.579)
you know, Love Film, which had been the business that Amazon had bought that became the precursor to Prime Video. So it was kind of early stages of really, you know, beginning to kind of build content and think about, you know, what kind of content is going to work. We’d just done the deal with, you know, Clarkson to kind of get the grand tour. We were just doing kind of big shows like American Gods, Mr. Robot, you know, we were just really getting going. And it should have felt like the coolest, most interesting, you know, place to be. You know, we should have been doing amazing marketing. The budgets were big.

Lynn Beattie (32:37.198)

Lynn Beattie (32:46.51)
And it wasn’t.

Andrew (32:48.595)
there was nothing really holding us back apart from the internal processes and ways of working that Amazon forced you to operate within. So I stayed there for a bit, and then I decided that it wasn’t for me, and I moved to a global role in Kaspersky, which was a big global cyber security company based in Moscow.

Lynn Beattie (33:00.43)

Andrew (33:15.123)
but with offices all over the world. And I took on a really cool role, basically managing all of their marketing globally from brand marketing, content marketing, all the way down to performance marketing for consumer and business in all the regions around the world. So for me it was brilliant because I was able to travel around the world for the first time properly and see how different teams operate in South America, in Europe, in…

Singapore, in the Middle East, in Russia quite a lot as well. We’ve got a lot of trips to Moscow and just met all these really interesting, incredible people and it gave me a chance to properly build a global team and that was a great experience, bringing all the team to London for meetings or taking them all to Moscow for meetings and doing a bit of the sort of playbook which I know kind of works well, which I try and…

you know, take pieces of and replicate as I move around, role by role, but we’re trying not to kind of do it, you know, in the same way every single time, but certain things work well and bringing teams together and giving them a chance to, you know, get to know each other and spend time together is all worth it.

Lynn Beattie (34:24.782)
Can I ask you, so with all the experience you’ve had building teams, because that’s a lot of really big companies you’ve worked for, what tools do you think you’ve used which people listening to this could maybe search for online that would help them to get to know their working style better or what motivates them or?

Andrew (34:30.011)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Andrew (34:39.763)



It’s a good question. I guess it’s hard because a lot of it’s in my mind because I used to read a lot of books around teams and business styles.

Lynn Beattie (35:01.11)
Well, Myers Briggs is a really good one that you can access online, which will give you your personality type. And I’ve done, so just search Myers Briggs on Google. I’ve done it in my 20s, in my 30s and in my 40s. And my personality type has not changed. So that’s really interesting. Like you can, you can, you know, develop yourself.

Andrew (35:04.915)
Yeah. Yeah.

Andrew (35:12.083)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Andrew (35:20.147)
Yeah, that’s pretty good, yeah.

It’s fundamentally that that’s right though. Fundamentally that is right. It’s like the one, the one, one sort of tool I guess I have used in multiple teams. Cause I think it’s a really interesting one is the strength finder tool by Gallup, you know, strength finder search up on Google. You can, you know, the best way is to, you know, you can either buy the originally you could buy the book, which has got all the details about the whole process. And in the back of the book, there was, there’s like a sort of a, a small kind of rip open code and you can go online and you do this.

Lynn Beattie (35:42.158)

Andrew (35:52.437)
find a survey and it gives you your top five strengths out of 34 possible strengths and every time I’ve done it with anybody when they’ve done they’ve gone online and they’ve done the survey and they you get a pretty detailed printout after the survey it’s almost a hundred percent being accurate with people you know these are my strengths you know I’m a maximizer I’m an energizer I’m you know whatever you know whichever ones you are you mean you read it and then you and then you think about it.

Lynn Beattie (36:18.318)

Andrew (36:22.515)
It’s very, very, you know, very often it’s right and very rarely has it ever been wrong because it’s based on all the hundreds of thousands of people that have done it. It’s learning all the time. It’s kind of like an early kind of, you know, kind of machine learning type logic. And then what I used to do, as you put me to remember, is we then map out all the team, you know, we kind of just get a big sort of flip chart. We map out, you know, who’s got which strengths and then you begin to understand, you know, who’s got…

Lynn Beattie (36:32.27)

Lynn Beattie (36:42.638)
That’s so good.

Andrew (36:46.995)
particular strengths in different areas. So you sort of see how your team sort of maps. People get to know each other in a way that they didn’t think about before.

Lynn Beattie (36:51.758)

Andrew (36:54.931)
And then that also allows you to kind of build connections like, God, I know that, you know, Lynn’s brilliant, brilliant at kind of planning and organizing and getting things, you know, in a really good place. And I’ve got, you know, I’ve got a big project coming up and I’m kind of a bit, I’m going to have a coffee with Lynn and I’m going to ask her, you know, how, how could you help me, you know, get this thing in order? And so, you know, people begin to know how they can sort of use each other. And that also helps build those relationships, but I would definitely encourage that. And I think you still, I think you still buy the book on Amazon. It was, it used to be very, very cheap. I think it’s got a little bit more expensive. We can just go onto it.

Lynn Beattie (36:55.182)

Lynn Beattie (37:16.462)

Andrew (37:24.885)
and you buy a code and you can just do the help thing. It’s called Strength Finder. I think it’s by Gallup now. I think it’s Gallup. But yeah, I’m sure we can get the link and you can post it into your…

Lynn Beattie (37:27.182)
What’s that one called again? Strength Vinder.

Lynn Beattie (37:36.078)
Yeah, no, I think another one that I’d refer people to is, is love language. Okay, now, your love language isn’t just for an intimate relationship, it’s any relationship with your friends, with your work colleagues, with your family. And I have and there’s

Andrew (37:43.347)

Andrew (37:51.987)

Lynn Beattie (37:54.798)
search for love languages online. There’s a free questionnaire and it will tell you your love language. There’s only five of them and it’s always so let’s let’s say my love language is words of affirmation and your love language is maybe I wouldn’t even be able to guess maybe time. So the love languages are gifts, time, words, touch and

Andrew (37:56.155)
Yeah. Right. Okay.

Andrew (38:08.627)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Andrew (38:17.299)
Right, okay.

Andrew (38:23.315)

Lynn Beattie (38:25.358)
another one, which I can’t remember the other one. It will come back to me. But when you know that I need words of affirmation, even as a friend or a mentor, we’ve got a sort of mentor -mentee relationship that we sort of switch and turn. But when you know that, then you’re going to play to my needs. And when I know that your need is time,

Andrew (38:27.635)
Right. Yeah.

Andrew (38:35.355)
Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

Lynn Beattie (38:50.766)
I’ll then make sure I give you the time you need. And it’s so powerful for any kind of relationship. And I just used to think that it’s only for, you know, your partner, your intimate relationship. But no, think of your mum and dad’s love language. Think of your bosses, think of your teams.

Andrew (39:04.531)
I can work in any relationship. Yeah, it’s nice. I think, yeah, if you can always try and think about the other person in your, in that kind of whatever relationship we’re talking about, I think it’s a really nice way of doing it. I think you can get to the part of, this love language sounds really cool. I need to look into that. And the other thing I would say, you know,

if we’re talking about things to recommend people should do, it’s just, and I think it’s gone a bit maybe with COVID, it’s network. Build your network. I’ve got people that I try and see as regularly as possible who just bring interesting conversations or…

Lynn Beattie (39:35.022)

Andrew (39:45.875)
You know, talk about things that I hadn’t even thought about. You know, you’ve learned so much from your network and, you know, we all work from home now. It was much easier, you know, five, 10 years ago, you’d meet people because you were all kind of in London or in the office, or you could get into different places. But honestly, I encourage people to network, you know, meet people you’ve never met before. Connect with people on LinkedIn, just like, you know, ask, you know, I’ve met people on LinkedIn by putting a post up and I now have really close relationships. There’s a guy who I’ve never physically met who’s in Tenerife.

But he’s like a really close friend now because we met because he messaged me after a post I put on LinkedIn like three or four years ago. And now we talk like literally, you know, all the time, you know, and he’s got an agency in Tenerife. He’s a really smart guy. You know, I trust him to do any kind of, if I got, if I’m not sure about a company or I need a bit of, you know, due diligence or just want to kind of really honest appraisal, send it to him. He’ll come back and find me. He’s like, looked online, Andrew, this guy is dodgy. Have you seen this? And I’m like, might go.

Lynn Beattie (40:18.382)

Lynn Beattie (40:27.214)

Lynn Beattie (40:39.726)

Lynn Beattie (40:44.526)

Andrew (40:45.427)
Please just, so network, really, really do network and be, you know, you’ve got to work on that, you know, because you’ve got to be the one that will drive that. You’ve got to be the one that says, hey, how are you doing? When are you free? Because you’ve got to sort of fan the flames of that network. And I think if you do that, you get a lot of value from.

Lynn Beattie (41:06.446)
Yeah, and I think it’s really important as well, like often sort of mentors are sort of referred to in a corporate environment, but I don’t think it matters whatever level you are in a job, whether you’re, you know, starting at the, you know, the beginning in your early 20s or you’re in your, you know, nearing the end of your paid career. But I…

Andrew (41:12.275)

Lynn Beattie (41:33.806)
I have several mentors. You’re probably my main one. And you have literally held my business hand through the last 11 years of Mrs. Mommy Penny from the very inception all the way through. And you’ve given me time. We’ve sat down and we’ve ripped the business apart several times. And you’ve given me positive feedback and negative feedback.

Andrew (41:39.251)
Mm -hmm.

Andrew (41:49.939)

Andrew (41:56.211)

Lynn Beattie (42:03.76)
back, but I have such a respect for you that you can literally say whatever you want to me about the business and you plan ideas quite carefully that sometimes I write them off, but other times they’re like amazing ideas. So I really encourage people to look to their network for somebody who they can build that kind of relationship with because it’s invaluable.

Andrew (42:04.371)
Mm -hmm.

Andrew (42:11.303)
Yeah, yeah.

Andrew (42:25.715)
Yeah, definitely. Be generous with your time. Be nice, be generous with your time. Network. You learn experience in itself as a learning. Don’t feel like you’ve got to do every single course or go on every single thing that, paid course here or this thing. You learn from people, you learn from being around people and experience is the biggest lesson, like life.

Life is your biggest lesson, say yes to everything and throw yourself into it. No, not everything. Say yes to all the right things, say no to all the bad things, but be open -minded and travel. That’s the other thing I would, if I had more opportunity to travel when I was young, I would go back to my younger self, kind of as an 18 year old and say,

Lynn Beattie (42:58.99)
Yeah, not everything. I would never say yes to Klarna. No, no, no.

Lynn Beattie (43:16.494)

Andrew (43:23.923)
travel the hell out of your next 10 years because traveling and seeing how different cultures work is also the biggest way of kind of opening your mind to just life and people are so, you know, how people live and operate in different countries is mind -blowingly kind of interesting, but just gives you a much bigger awareness of the world. And I can’t, I would…

Lynn Beattie (43:26.35)

Lynn Beattie (43:37.486)

Andrew (43:50.739)
If that would be my one piece of advice like travel travel anywhere you’ve never been there travel there Even if you think the idea of it is horrible go there once And you know, and you may you may not but never have to go back but travel go there once

Lynn Beattie (43:53.614)

Lynn Beattie (44:00.526)
Yeah, that’s very cool. Right, it’s…

Lynn Beattie (44:06.798)
Yes, if the budget allows it. Maybe, maybe travel around the UK. Right, okay, you need to go to your next meeting. So thank you ever so much for joining me. The discussion there was totally not what I planned, but it was actually very, very good. Well, of course it was good. So.

Andrew (44:11.347)
Find a company that will take you there. That’s the best thing.

Andrew (44:18.931)

Thank you.

Andrew (44:25.555)
What were your plans? What tracks did we go off on?

Lynn Beattie (44:33.294)
Well, I sort of thought I’d give it a bit of structure, like with what advice could we give to somebody in their 20s, somebody like a mum coming out of motherhood, you know, coming back to work or maybe somebody older, but it’s fine because I think the overall, I think the overall sort of general guidance you’ve given applies to everyone. So that’s good.

Andrew (44:36.371)

okay. Okay. Yeah.



Yeah, we could do another podcast and we could do another one looking at life stages. I think that is interesting because I think there are very different things you should be thinking about when you’re in those stages.

Lynn Beattie (45:03.402)
Yeah, yeah, maybe, yeah, maybe we do. Yeah, maybe we do another one in like a few months time that’s talking about life stages. We’ll see, we’ll see how popular this one is, Andrew, how many people download it.

Andrew (45:08.179)
Yeah, yeah, no, I’ll show you whenever you want to go.

Yeah, that’s fine. I mean, I don’t know the numbers.

Lynn Beattie (45:17.454)
anybody wants to follow you on social media, are you okay with that? So like on LinkedIn, people can connect to you on LinkedIn or follow you on Twitter, X? No. Yeah.

Andrew (45:21.971)
Hmm. Yeah, of course. Yeah. Can’t stop them. Yes. Yeah. I’m not really on Twitter. I mean, you can find me on LinkedIn’s probably best. I don’t tend to, I kind of, I used to post a lot on Facebook and Instagram and LinkedIn, but then I made a very conscious decision about a year and a half ago to not really post very much. So my posts have gone kind of right down. but I’m still on there. I’m still kind of, you know, I still use it for connecting and networking.

Lynn Beattie (45:49.55)
So people can follow you on LinkedIn. So you’re Andrew Winton.

Andrew (45:52.019)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, he went to an issue. Andrew Winton, you can definitely find me on there. I’m not hidden or anything like that. And yeah, please, you know, please. And feel free if they want to, you know, ask any questions on the things that we’ve talked about or can’t find the strength, find the thing. You just message me on LinkedIn. I’ll, you know, get back to you. Thank you very much.

Lynn Beattie (46:08.814)
Yeah, amazing. Thank you very much for your time. I appreciate it. And now you can go off and go do your corporate global marketing.

Andrew (46:15.219)
It’s going to be great.

Yep, yep, I’m off to the Ned now to meet somebody there. I know, woo! Gonna go swimming in the pool.

Lynn Beattie (46:25.774)
Come on. That’s so cool. All right then, thank you. Don’t go anywhere until I say you can.

Andrew (46:31.635)
No, okay, thanks, then. I’ll stay.


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Lynn Beattie

Aka Mrs MummyPenny

Personal Finance Expert

I write about personal finance made simple, lifestyle choices that will save you time and money, as well as products and services that offer great value.

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